Because seriously?
For those who ask, “Uncle Joel, in your deep wisdom and experience, could you please explain the ‘Sovereign Citizen’ movement for your audience?” I must reply…
No. I really can’t. I’ve hung with these guys and I can’t tell you what it’s about. It’s sort of a cargo cult law-as-ritual thing where if you add this particular incantation to a legal document any judge in the land is forced to throw up his hands, exclaim “Curses, foiled again” and let you off to do as you will, and everybody knows about this one guy who did that and it worked. Somewhere. Fringes on flags in courtrooms have something to do with it. People have sat me down and tried very earnestly to explain it, but I’m hopeless as a lawyer. Or a whacko.
So Sovereign types as the #1 terrorist threat in the land? Having a hard time buying it. And the article’s narrative isn’t helping…
One of the reasons members of the groups are considered dangerous is due to their lack of organization, Kirk said.
See, I’m pretty sure the writer means that in the sense that they’re all decentralized and everywhere at once, which is supposed to make them more threatening and stuff. But if you took it to mean “couldn’t find their ass with both hands and a roadmap,” well… Yeah. That.
Let’s put it this way. This is the best example they could find of a terrifying Sovereign Citizen prototerrorist:
(MCT) — In August, State Police arrested a man in Roane County after they said they found improvised explosives, AK-47 style rifles and about 30 live chickens in his wrecked SUV at 3:30 a.m. The man, Seth Grim, 21, allegedly told police that he was a “sovereign citizen,” a group that rejects taxes and local, state and federal laws.
Okay, like I said I’ve hung with SC types. God love’em, I don’t have the slightest thing against them. But even so I have absolutely no problem believing that this is a simple, sober, by-the-numbers description of Seth Grim, without the slightest exaggeration or hyperbole. Because I’m pretty sure I’ve met that guy, or somebody exactly like him*.
#1 terrorist threat? Your average SC type would have a hard time successfully carrying out a mission to pick up a pizza. They’re God’s gift to somebody trying to build a fake terrorist group to be busted for the cameras, because they’ll believe anything. Remember a few years ago when DHS, in partnership with the SPLC, was trying to build up the militia movement as the #1 Terrorist Threat du jour? And so they came up with the Hutaree?
Yeah. It’s like that.
H/T to The Freedom Outlaw
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*I imagine that I’ve missed learning about a cadre of serious, diamond-hard, intensely intellectual Sovereign Citizens whom I’m now offending. If so, apologies. I have to go by experience here. Based on the ones I’ve met, I’m just not able to take them seriously as a terrorist threat.
Here’s the problem with the militia and sovereign citizen organizations; usually there is someone in each group who runs his mouth and says provocative things like advocating assinations or using the 2nd amendment rights to eliminate people they don’t agree with and in general threatening. The movements are generally a mix of things you and I and most people would approve of and things best said in smoke filled rooms to your best friend and no one else. They give their enemies (SPLC) ammunition to use against them in a seemingly tone deaf way. Are they “wrong”? Often what they say is not “wrong” but instead of saying to vote out politicians who are harming us they refer to guns and guillotines or some equally stupid way of expressing their dismay. You would have to be about as stupid as one of these loud mouths to get yourself involved with them.
Much of the time the guy talking about assinations and shooting people is a fed.
Remember the ‘Sons of the Gestapo’ who reportedly pulled off train derailment some years back? More like the ‘Sons of the Pioneers’!
Or FBI shills…
Just sayin’…
gfa
I certainly don’t advocate, and wouldn’t myself, initiate any sort of violence against anyone, but that whole “vote out the politicians” and “elect the right people” thing hasn’t ever actually worked out to promote individual liberty. That’s because it is a collectivist, hive, borg thing and will always lead to more hive/borg conditions.
And so it is with so many of these “citizen” things. Obsessing over the borg “rules,” traditions and supposed affect on the system of their capitalization, magic phrases and flag with no fringe… But they only want a different “system,” one they control it would seem… not freedom from tyranny for everyone, everywhere.
We actually have one of these “citizens” in a group I work with. Several local civic clubs have sent representatives in order to organize community education of a fully informed jury. The “citizen” seems to think a few law classes in college qualify him to advise everyone on how to do all the magic stuff… and the actual lawyer in the bunch, who is also the county DA and WANTS informed jurors, just sits there rolling his eyes. It was very entertaining, and I can only imagine the sort of discussions they have in private. LOL
No, there are (probably many) alternate ways to protect yourself from the system and build for a free future. Joel is a shining example of one of them. Does not require either votes or guillotines to carry it out.
I think the “sons of the gestapo” was just one guy, who was pissed at Amtrak.
Allen says:
I think the “sons of the gestapo” was just one guy, who was pissed at Amtrak.
Thanks Allen. I just snorted coffee on the dog.
“that whole “vote out the politicians” and “elect the right people” thing hasn’t ever actually worked out to promote individual liberty”
You are right and we are in a mess because of it. BUT at the same time you have to admit/accept that about half the citizens eligible to vote choose not to vote. There is rarely anyone organizing to lower taxes or promote liberty but on the other hand there are strong groups organizng voters to vote for higher taxes, more school teachers and higher salaries, more welfare, more immigration, etc. So you are right it didn’t work but that is because the citizens choose to not vote and let minority activists steal elections. Everyone who stayed at home on election day 2008 and 2012 because they didn’t like the Republican candidate in fact gave us Obama. Don’t misunderstand, I didn’t like McCain and although I liked Romney I recognized that he would never be a statesmen, a president to restore our constitution and he would have merely been a “place keeper” until the next election. But it still comes down to voting.
“So you are right it didn’t work but that is because the citizens choose to not vote and let minority activists steal elections.”
GTWT, governments are by their very nature designed by and for people who want more — more power, more control, more taxes, more centralization. Governments are for people who want to force others to do their will and force others to pay for their projects and priorities.
People who love freedom don’t want any of that & it’s simply a trap to tell people that they can v*te their way to liberty. It’s like saying you can use a whip to display your kindness or practice gluttony to lose weight.
You’re kidding yourself if you think that any government anywhere will serve the interests of freedom for more than a very short time.
Those are much nicer similes than what I’ve been using. I’ve been comparing voting for liberty to fornicating for virginity. GoneWithTheWind clearly likes government and wants it to grow, and he wants every one to vote so that they have a veneer or legitimacy.
There’s a problem with using “F*^king for virginity” as an example of a contradiction. After all, if no one f*^ks, how will new virgins be produced?
🙂
“…and suddenly somebody walks in with paperwork that they’ve never seen,” he said. “We want them to be prepared.” – I can see why they would be concerned.
“Much of the time the guy talking about assinations and shooting people is a fed.”
No…… mostly just mouthy idiots. Sure, if there’s a vocal agitator, they may be on the payroll, but usually, the guy advocating violence is just the village dunce. This is one of myriad reasons I shun things like this “sovereign citizen” crap and anything similar. Too many retards pissing in the punchbowl. Or more rather the Kool-Aid bowl.
And this:
“I didn’t like McCain and although I liked Romney ”
Oh…ok, they were both no different than Obama. Well, McCain would be bombing Bagdad on behalf of ISIS instead of Aleppo on behalf of “let’s do something even if it’s wrong”.
But whatever, the whole deal is what it is and no amount of voting will fix it because someone will counter by electing someone else who fucks the program up. Or whoever gets elected just lies.
Did I mention Kool-Aid?
In any case, in all the last several administrations and no matter who is in charge of the legislature, we get silliness like this:
The three guys in the SC movement who otherwise can’t tie their own shoes are the biggest terror threat to US citizens around*.
* after we sweep such groups as Islamo…whoever, the crips and bloods, the Mexican mafia and all associates groups, the Sicillian Mafia, Justin Bieber, the Klan, the hell’s angels, monsanto, the SPLC, and pretty much every police and government organization under the proverbial rug; because they aren’t anywhere near as dangerous as Bubba once he’s in his cups.