There have been some great suggestions in the “Which gun should I recommend” post, which I believe has the most active comment thread in TUAK history. And for the record you’ve affected the discussion that’s due this coming weekend, since there really are some excellent DA revolvers available in .22LR. They’re all at least twice as expensive as the 22/45, but maybe that won’t matter so much. It’s certainly an option to be discussed. So that happened.
But! I am never, uh uh, not gonna happen, never will I recommend any snubbie to any 70-year-old lady who’s barely ever even fired a handgun in her life, for a defensive gun. Caliber doesn’t matter.
To quote from a linked article in the comment thread:
One of the most popular handguns to carry these days is the .38 caliber five shot revolver with a two-inch barrel, and for good reason. These little snub-nose revolvers are a great compromise of power, portability, and concealability.
Yeah, what the writer fails to mention is ease of accurate use. And for sheer user-unfriendliness in the small matter of hitting the target, you’d have to go to a big-bore derringer to find a poorer shooting experience than a double-action snubbie. Can they be shot well? I suppose with enough work it could happen. I had pleasant moments with that Taurus 431. Is it likely, in these circumstances? Hell no.
So. No snubbies. Ah haz spoken.
Well, Joel, I’ll have to disagree with you again. 🙂 I was 58 when I started carrying a gun. The “snubby” Ruger .357 was the gun I started out with. I had the 7 pound trigger exchanged for a 5 pound, and it didn’t take me long to shoot .38+p rounds pretty accurately. The double action does require practice and hand strengthening to use well, but it can be done by most people – including many old ladies. And, since most DGU situations are at “bad breath” distance, and most don’t even require the gun to be fired, I don’t see any real advantage to an old lady hauling around a much longer barrel. And even if her only practice is dry fire once in a while with that snubby, she’ll be far more prepared to defend herself than most of her peers. And the adrenalin rush will take care of the heavy trigger problem.
I’ll agree that older folks with poor hand strength, arthritis and so forth would not be comfortable with that gun, which is why so many different guns are made… But never say never. Well, except for the .38 special in ultralight… snubby or not, those are pretty much impossible for most folks to shoot well, and seriously discourage any practice. Thinking of that one, I’ll agree that far. 🙂
Not that I promote revolvers of any kind to my students. I don’t discourage them either. We do discuss the idea of maybe needing more than five or six rounds, and they go through a session of tactical and emergency reloading both revolvers and pistols.. And most of the ladies choose a semi-auto for whatever reason. I don’t think much of the little “pocket guns” some choose, but hey… It’s their gun and their life. 🙂
Mr Quin did also say:
“One surprise did occur, and that was the accuracy of the little six-gun. While the .32 Magnum is noted for displaying excellent accuracy, I was surprised at the ability of the short-barreled Taurus to shoot relatively small groups at twenty-five yards. One six shot group went into a bit over two inches, with most loads grouping under three.”
Ruger also makes the SP101 in the 327 Fed Mag in assorted barrel lengths thought the price is a bit more dear than then Taurus. It is also heavier. But the 32mag/327 allows for a multiplicity of flavors of ammo in the 32 platform to accommodate recoil sensitive shooters and allows them space to grow as they become more comfortable with it. It has been my experience that what troubles most female newbies to shooting is the mechanics of safety levers, decockers and slide racking. Thus the suggestion of a J frame sized revolver.
And Joel says,
“Anybody who actually believes the claims in a gun mag review is a sucker. Big S, little u, cker.” Maybe locked in a sighting vice that thing can do 3″ at 25 yards. I wouldn’t bet on it, but maybe. A little old lady isn’t a sighting vice.
“A little old lady isn’t a sighting vice.”
The point is that she doesn’t need to be… 🙂 I could send you some of my targets after shooting the Ruger… Not competition stuff, but five shots within a 4 or 5 inch group. And I can do it one handed…
Good enough to scare the shit out of a burglar. Or put him in the morgue. I won’t be shooting at him from across the street. 🙂
“It has been my experience that what troubles most female newbies to shooting is the mechanics of safety levers, decockers and slide racking. ”
Michael, I’ve taught hundreds of people to shoot, including a great many women. This is simply a stereotype, far as I can see. No idea what sort of wimps you run into, but the only people I’ve encountered who have those problems with a semi auto are those who have been told previously that they will be confused by the mechanics… a self fulfilling prophesy. But they usually get over it fast.
There can be physical difficulties with the levers and the slide (weak hands or short fingers), obviously, but most of those can easily be overcome with training and practice. My EDC doesn’t have any such levers or decockers, since I think they are a foolish waste of time, but I’ve taught a lot of women who had already bought such guns and they were merely a hiccup, not an roadblock.
My 70-year-old mother wanted a carry weapon after Dad died. After trying several, she settled on a Ruger 6-shot revolver in 9mm (yes, moon clips). She couldn’t find a semi she could rack the slide on, & didn’t like a semi’s “complication”. For her purposes, it suits her needs. As always, YMMV.
Ruger SP101 stainless DA .22LR 8-shot with 4″ barrel, cushion grips, adjustable rear sight and “hi-viz” front sight . . . handy length yet enough sight radius to be quite usable. This would be my first choice for the lady. Pricey though, a little over $700 MSRP but the real market is usually considerably less.
JMHO
OK so Joel thinks I am a sucker if I believe what Mr Quin writes, and I must run it to a lot of wimps 😉 … That’s OK, I can deal with it. No I have not taught hundreds of women let alone people to shoot. But I have ran in to both men and women, relatives and friends, who had trouble racking a slide on a regular 9mm plastic fantastic that you and I would not twice about and preferred the simplicity of a revolver. They simply don’t have the hand size or grip strength required to rack the slide. They are also put off by any additional switches and levers that they have to remember to move in the event of needing to use it. The newer Taurus J frame UL have a decent enough trigger pull they can manage it and that is why I suggested it. My point was that the 32 Mag/327 Fed Mag is often an option with less recoil for those that are bothered by it.
This could rack up as many responses as the first post(which this little old lady didn’t participate in). My first handgun was(is) a little Colt Cobra .38 sp snubby. It was gifted to us by a friend who was a retired secret service agent and he and this gun went to China with Nixon. At 25 yards I can hit a 5-6″ group(good enough for center mass). It’s my open carry gun when I’m out in the forest getting firewood and could encounter a bear or something. It’s my experience that the mere noise of one shot will run off a local bear. But it’s a tad too bulky for concealed carry the way I dress.
My concealed carry is a little S&W Bodyguard .380 sa. It’s one of the few semi-automatic pistols that I can rack the slide. It’s also slim and conceals well IWB or in a pocket. It’s pleasant to shoot and a bit more accurate at a bit more distance.
If I want to think I’m a badass and need more weapons, a gun-hating friend gave me her grandmother’s little little Rohm RG-14 .22 revolver that makes a neat ankle gun.
My point being that your friend may have her own ideas about what suits her, what she thinks she needs if for and what she wants to do with it(open or concealed carry). I still like your original suggestion, but I wouldn’t close the door on other options.
There are a few subjects guaranteed to bring out opinions- religion, gun dogs, politics, and, yes guns. I like them all but hand guns to me are 9mm auto loaders. I’ve got some others but they kind of came in over the transom and don’t fall into the favorite category. My wife, who’s never been a fan but learned to shoot just to humor me, doesn’t like auto loaders at all. The two that she’ll shoot are a five shot SP101 in 357/38 and a 9 shot .22 revolver. They are simple, easy to check for loads, and not so many moving parts. Of the two, the .22 is far and above the favorite due to low recoil and lower noise.
Yep. Almost as good as starting a discussion about Donald Trump or Bernie. For those of us who HAVE to do concealed carry (where Open carry isn’t an option), its always a tradeoff between adequate power and concealability. If you want both, its likely that the gun will be unpleasant to shoot. I carry one of those little airweight snubbies in 357. Yes, its absolutely no fun to shoot….even loaded with 38. No, I probably can’t do 3 inches at 25 yards. But it only has one purpose in my life: to put a big hole in a bad guy at close range in a screaming emergency situation. I have other guns for fun shooting. Yeah, yeah, train like you expect to need to use it someday, but I’ve tried carry solutions for decades, and finally settled on this. I figure that a concealed carry gun is NOT a general purpose coyote shootin, can ventilating fun gun. At least for me.
BUT. It is butt simple to use. No safety. Light as a feather. No exposed hammer. If I EVER need to call upon it, I know it’ll work.
For your friend, Joel, you are probably right. A 22 LR is a great choice. I’m personally partial to revolvers, myself, because they are so easy to understand and use, but a semi is perhaps easier to conceal because flatter.
I recommended a Ruger Bearcat in .22 in the other thread and would like to recommend another SA revolver in this one. Namely the Ruger Single Six in .32 H&R Mag. You can load it with .32 S&W which aren’t going to be much harder to shoot than the .22, as well as .32 S&W Longs and .32 H&R magnums. The bigger holes make it lighter than the same gun in a .22 and with the short 4 5/8″ bbl it is a joy to carry.
All the .32 ammo mentioned can be somewhat difficult to obtain, particularly the older, non-magnum stuff, and more pricey than .22 LR. This particular shooter is almost certainly not a reloader, and will need to be able to practice and learn the handling requirements of whatever gun she ends up with. In this situation, only the most basic, standard chamberings such as .22LR and/or .38 Special/.357 make economical sense.
It may very well come to pass that after she becomes acquainted with handling procedures and general marksmanship she will be open to expansion of her gunny horizons. That said, she needs to start at her lowest threshold and work from there. Hopefully Joel and perhaps Ian will be available to gently lead her on to some of the finer points and expose her to various genres of weaponry.
JMHO
I think ML is the one who has mentioned this, in the past. Rack the Slide, in which Kathy Jackson explains techniques for doing so.
That .372 Fed Mag sounds interesting. Looked for ammo at both LuckyGunner and AmmoMan, and didn’t find any, but ammoseek.com has many listings. Seems about $25 for a box of 20, which, these days, ain’t so bad for a newer cartridge that isn’t going to have a high sales volume (and there is some cheaper). But I suspect that’ll be off-putting to a new shooter. .38 Special is a lot cheaper, as is 9mm Luger. 32S&W is anywhere from 40 cents to a buck a round.
Can’t say for sure, without meeting the lady in question, but I suspect that with proper instruction and practice, a semi-auto ain’t gonna be a problem, as long as you aren’t going with something like a Wildey.
Agreed that many situations don’t require a gun to be fired. If you are dealing with semi-coherent humans. Feral/wild animals are unlikely to recognize the threat. A .22 or such that will put holes where you want them may prove much more useful on them. Yes, I would rather put bigger holes in them, but the old saying has some merit. A hit with a BB is better than a miss with a cannon ball. We are talking about someone who will practice more with BBs than cannon balls, right?
I have no problem hitting golf balls at 10 yards with a Taurus 357 snubbie…. Could I do it if I was attacked when not expecting it? nope…. Wont have the time to take proper aim…. BUT…. I dont foresee where the target is going to be very far away, and as small as a golf ball… It is very likely going to be either A, an animal that isnt sure what to do about this “thing” (human) it is approaching or staring at from a semi-safe distance (which in this case you DO have time to aim) or B, it is a human animal coming in at bad breath distance, in which case, you dont need to aim, they are close enough to do a belly shot multiple times until they decide it wasnt a very good idea to do what they did….
Of interest, maybe?
http://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2010/10/21/snubby-ballistics/
Got that from SayUncle.
Snubbie or not, I think we’d all be curious to know what she winds up settling on. Please do update us when she does.
Good article, Jed. Blows away some wives’ tales.
In addition, careful reflection on the data will reinforce the old saw that one should use the MOSTEST gun one can handle properly . . . if one is carrying for the sole purpose of self-protection. This can be a superloudenboomenwhacker for the experienced gunny or a .22 for the novice. Only the individual can determine his/her level of comfort and ability after some experience.
To further exhaust this thread, we need to remember that the lady in question is a true novice, and what she starts out with may or may not fulfill her ultimate choice for a carry piece. One hopes she will receive calm instruction and be allowed to advance at her own pace so she is truly comfortable and capable with her end result.