Okay, here’s the set-up:
Here’s a … well, she’s basically a sweet little old lady. Maybe a little older than me, kind and religious and mild and up till she discovered the desert I’d have called her thoroughly urban. Not a redneck, not a prepper, not a gun person.
She’s been out here longer than I have, in the sense of owning property but until this season it was always weekends only. She loves to hike the boonies, but she’s aware that it has dangers and that until now for the most part she has been protected from them by others. Now she’s moving out here full-time, and that won’t always be the case. So now, after more than a decade, she wants a handgun recommendation.
She has been exposed to the range habits of us crazies, she has fired her husband’s 9mm, and she hates it. The noise, the recoil, the commotion – she’s very unlikely to adapt at this late date to something she’s been actively avoiding all this time. Not philosophically antigun, just a very mild person.
Okay. She’s aware of the dangers of hiking the boonies. With snakes you’re really better off with a stout stick than with a handgun, and she’s addicted to walking sticks. Other than that, the greatest danger is dog packs. It wouldn’t be my personal choice, but if I were faced with a dog pack I would not feel poorly armed if I had a good .22.
Other dangers? She’s not going to be getting into any gunfights. Coyotes have been heavily hunted here and are properly afraid of humans, and anyway a .22 wouldn’t be a useless weapon against them. If she gets jumped by a mountain lion, let’s face it, it wouldn’t matter if she were expert with a howitzer. Anyway that hasn’t happened in living history, our lions are very shy. In all this time I am certain of having sighted exactly one. (although she had one in her yard one time.)
So. On the theory that a little of something is better than a lot of nothing, I wanted to recommend something I thought she’d carry and something I thought she’d shoot. Certainly it’s a compromise. It wouldn’t be my choice – hell, I carry a five-shot .44 and maybe that wouldn’t be your choice.
I recommended this…
A Ruger 22/45 Lite. Part of my hesitation is that I’m not personally familiar with this variant. I’ve used a heavy-barrel 22/45 for varmint control for over fifteen years and love it, but I’m afraid she might find it a little heavy to carry. A full-size pistol in .22 has virtually no recoil and while loud, isn’t damagingly so. I hope the Lite version doesn’t add too much recoil and commotion, because if it intimidates her she won’t carry it.
I said those words last weekend, and next weekend I’m supposed to take her out with my gun. But now I’m hearing from Dirty Harry Joel: “Seriously? You recommended a .22? Really? Why, do you hate her and want her stuff?”
I’m having second thoughts, but I know it’ll be a miracle if we can even get her to practice with this much gun.
My guess is that you will hear as many opinions as there are folks offering them. Except this one. This doesn’t count as an actual opinion, just a thought. I’ve always avoided 22 magnum because the ammo is expensive and non-reloadable. But one box of ammo will probably last this person as long as she owns the gun, so that’s no factor.
So would it make the slightest bit of sense to go up that one click up in kill power to 22 Magnum?
Sounds like a reasonable choice. I think the next step up in power, without greatly increasing weight, to be a small 38 revolver. But those start being unpleasant and difficult to shoot accurately. Since I think practice with ones choice in firearms makes the user more effective than extra power, capacity, or latest tactical gadget, I agree with your recommendation.
I’m not much of a ‘gunnie’. The one thing I hate about my husband’s 9mm is the Ruger frame. I don’t like something sliding across the top of my hand ejecting shells. Another point is I’m left-eyed which means the gun ejects shells across my body. The spring on the slide is hard to work and I’ve pinched fingers trying to get it to chamber a shell.
I’m much more comfortable with a revolver. A .22 is the answer to get someone who isn’t into guns, but knows they need one, started.
Does the nice lady have the hand and finger strength to operate the slide and controls? My Mother, a very senior lady opted for a single action .22lr. She can cock the hammer with her whole left hand. Reloading is slow, but possible. She has arthritis so loading rounds into magazines is not an option. She also can’t handle recoil hitting the base of her thumb.
Another reason I like the Ruger, it’s very easy to charge. As far as I know she hasn’t anything wrong with her hands.
Never used the lite version but the normal ones are great guns. I’d say the gun she’ll carry and shoot is a lot better than the one in the closet. Plus they’re accurate and recoil is non existent, a .22 like that is just fun and she might find she likes shooting more than she thought she would. Next thing you know she might be carrying a .38 and shooting the .22 with you guys at the range. That’s the path my wife took and now she’s better with a pistol than I’ll ever be.
The 22/45 lite is a fine choice for this application. There is no ‘slide’ to rack, so hand strength requirements are minimal. It has decent sights out of the box, so there’s no additional expense to get it running. Get a spare mag, if it doesn’t already come with one, is my only suggestion.
Fwiw- I carry a s&w 317 around the property, but it’s kind of spendy.
.22 Magnum is orders of magnitude louder than .22lr. Most new/non shooters I have worked with are more scared of the noise than the recoil. Daughter started on a .22 Buckmark and loved it. Shot a few .380 pocket guns and .38 snubbies and hated them. After that, she claimed my Glock 19 as her own due to how quiet and smooth it was, compared to what I thought she would like. I personally would be fine with bumming around in the woods with the Ruger .22 in almost every situation. Been lusting after a 4″ Ruger SP-101 in .327 Federal, so let that speak to my personal oddity.
Semiauto .22 makes sense to me…
Oh, hell yes. It’s a no-brainer. A .22 (probably not the magnum, today) and it doesn’t need to be a Revolver .. except, she might feel more comfortable with the limited number of “control switch thingies” on a Revolver. I hesitate to say “what can go wrong?” because immediately afterward something will surely ‘go wrong’.
If she later decides she feels comfortable with something louder. well, y’all can work that out.
The .22 sounds fine. How about a big dog to go with the little gun?
If .22 is being considered what about that .22MAG that Keltec makes with the huge magazine? The PMR-30 seems to have favorable reviews and is reasonably priced. 22 magnum isn’t much but thirty rounds of it will start to put the hurt on.
I have a 22/45 lite and it’s a great gun. However I would also look at the Kel-Tec PMR 30 not only for magazine capacity but stopping power on “Yotes” There is something to be said for a 30 round mag vs a 10 rounder. Recoil and muzzle blast are about the same out of short barrels on pistols. If you buy from a reputable dealer both guns come with two mags, so keep that in mind. The Kel-Tec is a bit harder to come by but far and away a better choice for “critters”
Eric.
Not a bad choice for a starter. It’s possible to get scary accurate with something like that – and that counts for a lot. If and when she starts working that out past its potential she can start thinking about other tools for the toolbox. Shame though that .22 has gotten so ridiculously expensive and that it’s sometimes prone to throw up duds. From what I see of most firearms owners (myself included) is they fail to make the time to be and stay proficient. In this case, Joel – it’s out of your hands except for maybe giving her excuses to get out and shoot.
I wish I could say I’d live-fired one to confirm it myself, but I wonder about the Browning 1911-380 for something like this. Obviously you know her better than I do, and .22 (at least before The Great Stoopid ammo shortage) would have the advantage of ubiquity and cost, but that 1911-380 is known to be a pussycat to shoot, with its locked breech and size/weight balance. Yes, it’s a slide to rack, but it’s also pretty foolproof, with better hand purchase and gross movement mechanics than the Ruger bolt, and quite possibly lighter springs (again, that locked breech vs. the blowback of a rimfire).
And .380 is more than .22, whether you ascribe to the expanding-bullet or the solid-bullet philosophy. (Given considerations where you live, I’d probably prefer solids myself.) Not only that, but administrative handling with centerfire is less fumble-prone than with rimfire; for anyone who really carries the piece every day, this might be something to consider.
I’ll join the .22 Magnum parade. Other than Kel-Tec’s PMR 30 – I’m suspect of long term quality of anything Kel-Tec – does anyone make a good .22 magnum semi-auto?
And, this sounds like another advertisement for making suppressors easier to get.
If she does elect to eschew firearms, who will get her stuff?
I carry a .22 as a backup and a “it doesnt need shot with the 45 or .357 or the 9” that is my primary carry of the day….. HOWEVER, just a few days ago, I was reminded WHY a .22 semiauto is NOT what one would want to carry in the situation that Joel described…. I went to use it to put down a thief (possum) in a trap under my chickenhouse, and lo and behold, the round in the chamber DID NOT FIRE!!!! my 22 is multistrike capable, and after repeated pulls of the trigger, it still did not go off.. NOT a good thing if you are relying on it to go bang when you need it to… Therefore, I suggest STRONGLY in her carrying a REVOLVER, so when the first one doesnt go bang (a possibility with rimfire, much more than centerfire) then the only thing you have to do is pull the trigger again, NOT rack a slide that you may have trouble doing in the best of situations, much less when you needed a “bang” or “pow” (pew?) 2 seconds ago…..
I believe you did fine. For years I couldn’t get my daughter (now 22yo) to shoot any of my centerfire handguns because of the recoil. She always did like shooting the 10/22, though. Last year I finally got one of those 22/45 Lites, the blue one, replaced the black sights with Fire Sights, and replaced the magazine disconnect with a TandemKross bushing.
She liked shooting it so much she wanted one for her birthday. “…and pink.” I ended up getting her a Ruger SR22, one of the last pink ones (Raspberry) I could find in stock. She shoots it well. It’s super easy to field strip, way easier than the 22/45.
She’s got something better than a stick with which to defend herself, can work on her shooting technique without developing bad habits, and will move on to something with a bit more… diameter… when she’s ready.
Also, FYI, I’m pretty sure all the Ruger handguns come with two magazines.
For the love of all that’s good and holy, don’t tell her to get a damn Kel tec as her first freaking gun.
How about a big dog to go with the little gun?
Funny you should say that, since I’ll probably be personally supplying her with exactly that.
Well, Ghost isn’t all that big but he’s extraordinarily experienced. And he’s waited nearly all his life to move in with his Auntie Linda.
Taurus 941, 22 mag nine shot revolver?
Another good choice would be the S&W M&P 22 Compact.
http://www.outdoorhub.com/reviews/2014/08/27/big-little-surprise-smith-wesson-mp22-compact-pistol/
As I remember the 22MAG had substantial blast which may be a problem for her. .22/.22mag convertible revolver might be an acceptable option. You can switch to a higher power when she is ready.
.380 is a slightly better caliber for larger threats than 22LR. Tam’s Sig P250 .380 review popped into mind when I read your post. Below is the path to Tam’s P250 review.
http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2015/11/new-project.html
Lot of good commentary.
I lean toward the .22 double-action revolver simply because of the simplicity of operation. After only a little familiarization they can be fired single-action with ease should the situation require it. Also, relatively cheap ammo allows more practice/familiarization which is a GOOD THING.
Also, we all know the Ruger .22 semi-autos have certain, um, “operational quirks” when it comes down to strip/maintenance time. They are great pistols, but for a “non-gun” person they are not the best IMHO. Adding the relative complexity of operation of the safety and bolt hold-open merely removes these from the “beginner” category, again IMHO.
Another consideration would be how her husband fits into the mix. He will need to be on-board with this selection as he will quite possibly — possibly, I said — be the one performing the maintenance procedures and providing various procedural assistance on a daily basis. If he’s not enamored with the piece it might not be a happy situation.
Finally, after using the .22 DA revolver for a while, she might then be agreeable to investigate an essentially-identical piece chambered in .38 Special. Happens very often, in my experience.
Yeah, we know that. 🙂
And honestly, her husband is also not so dedicated a gun person as to willingly take up that cross. But a)she’s frankly unlikely to ever shoot the pistol enough for it to be a real problem, and b)if by happy chance she does, I know a neighbor of hers who can deal with the matter. So I considered and dismissed it as a factor
Joel, I have another thought. If Ian is willing and has access to several different .22s why not take her to the range and try out several different models before she buys one; instead of us guessing what she might like to carry and use.
Before you get all soft on the old .22 here is an interesting fact about it. The majority of Russians killed by Chechens were killed by snipers using .22 LR weapons using cheap scopes, Chechen snipers were very deadly at ranges of less than a hundred meters. Such ranges were pretty common in built up areas.
As for your recommendation to her the caliber is fine. However I would not have suggested a semi auto in her case because it is complex for the novice that doesn’t like guns. I suspect that she will not practice with it so she can do the immediate actions when the gun goes click as opposed to bang.
For what it’s worth this is the firearm I would recommend, a 10 shot S&W Model 617 4 inch in .22 LR. I know it’s a little pricey but you get what you pay for. I have a S&W Model 19 that is 25 years old and simply doesn’t quit no matter what I put down the barrel or how little I clean it.
I thought of that, Judy, but there really aren’t that many .22 pistols lying around here. I’m unaware that Ian owns any at all. (I can’t believe I just wrote that, but it’s true.)
MJR, I did not know that about Chechens. I assume the snipers had a 1/1 death rate at best, since Russians are normally very good at killing people back.
I don’t believe I’ve ever seen a S&W Model 617. Very cool. Also heavy looking, and I can’t even imagine what it would cost. But except for the weight and expense that would certainly be an option.
I’d recommend a revolver in .22 LR, myself, made out of stainless steel for ease of care. The Smith & Wessons tend to be hard to find and expensive, so I’d recommend a Ruger Single-Six or Bearcat, or a Charter Arms Pathfinder.
If you like the thought of the 617, consider the Ruger LCR or SP101, both 8-shot .22 DA revolvers, and less expensive than the S&W.
I loaned my Mom a Single-Six almost 25 years ago and she still hasn’t given it back! She practices with .22 long and uses the .22 WMR cylinder the rest of the time. She keeps it on her nightstand despite having a couple DA revolvers around the house in .38/357. It’s a comfort thing with her – doesn’t take the time to get proficient with the DA or larger calibers though at least she knows how they work. Maybe I’m wrong or mistaken – but she doesn’t seem to demonstrate the willingness to take on a semi-automatic pistol and all it entails. I’m working on introducing her to a Makarov but I’ve got doubts she could operate the slide or clear a malf.
You can only put someone so far along a path if they’re willing. Shame you live so far away Mama Liberty (assuming you may be reading this…) – I’d love to get you and my Mom together! I’d buy all the ammo!
And if a single-action floats your boat, these days the .22LR Single-Six is available as a ten-shot . . . the Single-Ten, of course, or a Single-Nine in .22 Magnum.
Personally, I love me some single-action revolvers, but as a SERIOUS WEAPON for a relative beginner I still feel the smaller double-action revolvers are better.
JMHO
There is the 12 dollars a box for .22 mag and 3 dollars a box for .22 lr thing too.
The Ruger is fine, If she wants something different after awhile, the trade in value is almost the price of a new one.
It looks like there are a few neighbors in your area that could let her try different makes, models and calibers in the coming months.
In the meantime she would have a gun with the Ruger, which is as we have been taught is much better than not having one.
The 22/45 Lite is fantastic. She’ll love it.
Michael mentioned the Taurus 941 .22 Magnum above. Its a definite possbility – I have a snub nose version of it and 9 rounds of ammuntion should be able to take care of anything dangerous. The .22 Magnum even comes with a choice of snake shot if that is consideration. Pretty loud – in fact nearly .38 Spcl. loud, so if in trouble, could probably be used for signaling purposes.
If the Ruger is too heavy, maybe the Buckmark Camper would be more her style ?
Very nice of you to look out for her btw.
Another possibility is the same snubbie Taurus in 32 Magnum.
http://www.gunblast.com/Taurus_UltraLite32.htm
“…there really aren’t that many .22 pistols lying around here. I’m unaware that Ian owns any at all.”
I can’t believe you’d just roll over on a bro like that. o.O
What can I say? If it wasn’t issued by some army, he may not actually own an example of it.
Barretta tomcat in .32 acp, hollow points will do. Light recoil, not too loud.
I’ve never actually fired a .22/45 light but my gunsmith had one he had just cerrakoted and I really liked it. Another easy carrying .22 would be a Ruger Bearcat. While it doesn’t have the option of using the .22 mag it is much lighter and easier carrying than the Single six. I have a custom single six that has been round butted and the barrel chopped to 3 1/2″ that is a joy to carry. Sorry, she can’t have that one.
No one ever recommends Walther. A female friend has a P22 and it is a very easy, efficient gun.