A conservative opines on that Open Carry Texas thing from last week…
Regardless of the legality of the thing, it is almost certainly ill-advised to alarm people in the name of making them feel more comfortable around guns.
In the eternal CC vs. OC debate, this is the single argument in favor of CC that makes sense to me. When you’re on the defensive side of a politically- and emotionally-charged topic, don’t be a dick.
Yeah, I know the OCT folks were Peaceful Gun Ownerstm. They weren’t there to cause the kind of trouble that leaves empty cartridge casings on the sidewalk. Hell, they even brought their kids with them! (A canny move, that.) Still, unless they’re even more socially clueless than me they knew exactly how their demonstration was going to be taken by its target, and they intended that it should be taken exactly that way.
And what the hell? It’s Texas. I’ve lived in Texas. I am reminded of the open carry kerfuffle in California that ended so very predictably, but Texas is not California. Maybe a reminder that “we have access to all four boxes” will play better there.
But still…One of the benefits I get from being on the right side of the gun control debate is the smug, self-righteous frisson that comes of being one of the good guys. Yes, I know our opponents share the sensation. But they’re wrong. 😛
Right?
We are the good guys. Right?
We should always be careful to act like it, is all I’m saying.
Well, to take that to its logical conclusion, nobody should ever challenge any injustice or try to change anything. I know you don’t mean that, most likely, but that’s where it gets carried.
Do I think those folks were wise to take their rifles to town that way? Probably not, but not for the reason you suggest. I think it is about as effective for changing the “law” as blowing horns at cows and expecting them to fall down as steaks.
As long as these folks keep “electing” masters to rule over them and otherwise support the government in whatever fashion… they will not be getting any steaks out of the deal no matter how hard they blow their horns.
That’s not taking it to its logical conclusion, that’s taking it to a ridiculous extreme.
One of the things that historically makes America great – or at least not Iran – is that we have a tradition of knock-down-drag-out political fights without body counts*. I like that about America. I don’t want to be the first to change it. Also, I’m not one of those people who’ll only carry a gun if there’s a law that allows it.
As to elections, you know what side of that page I’m on.
*When the tradition breaks down, though, our body counts are #1.
Sorry, but as long as our “tradition” supports ONLY idiotic and fruitless politics, we’re not going to get anywhere. Until we are willing to take a chance on breaking from the status quo, nothing is going to change. You, of all people should be totally on board with that, so I just don’t understand where you are coming from here.
A lot of people are uncomfortable or nervous about something new, especially when they’ve been lied to all their lives about it. But just in my lifetime I’ve seen a lot of those things go away simply because people were exposed to those things in the normal course of living and they discovered that the lies were just that, lies.
Atlas is shrugging. And as much as we’d all like it to be peaceful and without bloodshed, that is not the history of real change in this world – for good or ill. You and I have separated ourselves pretty much from the fight, but that’s not going to help the other millions of people who don’t necessarily have that option – or don’t even understand the problems. And our withdrawal is not going to change the status quo for the rest of them either.
What these “protesters” did was stupid. Not because other people were “alarmed” or felt bad or mad, but because it was pointless in the big picture. Like the old swimming in the swamp deal, but at least they had the guts to put their lives on the line for what they did believe, foolish or not.
This is where a lot of context seems to get misplaced, and sometimes (often) on purpose. They could run this in the Chicago Times and the antis would lap it up, and it doesn’t even have to be true. Especially because so many news organizations are part and parcel of the opposition, they know they’re unlikely to be corrected. Which makes it all the more imperative to not feed them clips and soundbites to twist. I OC daily, on the outside edges of a major lefty stronghold, but I do my damndest not to give them an angle to twist (not that I’m on their radar, but still). When we do things like carry rifles down the street past schools, or pose for pics in front of a group of antis, or take our arms to the airport baggage claim, I judge it a tactical error, because it makes it so much easier for the opposition to twist and mischaracterize.
Here’s the deal… if those same people had carried their rifles openly- “legally” – around with them all day, every day, everywhere they went, going about their normal, peaceful business… THAT would have made a far more peaceful, purposeful and positive statement than all the mass demonstrations in the world. The more of us who LIVE our freedom that way, every single day as both of us do, the better others will understand the rightness of it.
So, in that sense, the “demonstration” was certainly counterproductive. Maybe that’s what you were saying after all. Eh?
Yes! That’s exactly what I’m saying. Look, I practice and preach open carry both because that’s the most practical way to carry a gun and also because I want people to see a gun on a guy who’s not being a dick about it. I want to see the normalization of personal weapons , preferably in my lifetime. Statewide gun rights activists have made unbelievable progress on that in the past couple of decades, without a shot being fired.
Is that freedom? No, it’s not. We both know that we’ve lost enormous ground in other areas. Someday it might come to shooting. But the gun control debate, ironically, has been a model of the way progress can be made peaceably – as long as it’s done intelligently. Someday those guns may be needed in another, far more lamentable way. But right now they’re a symbol of positive change.
And part of that is just providing counterexamples. You yourself said, ML, “The more of us who LIVE our freedom that way, every single day as both of us do, the better others will understand the rightness of it. ” I agree wholeheartedly. And in fact that was all I was originally trying to say. All I’m saying is, “Don’t be a dick about it.”
But Wolfman, should it be a problem walking armed past a school, etc? Proof that this prohibition is arbitrary and without basis is the fact that, aside from the post office, there is no place in this town I can’t carry my gun openly, with zero problems from anyone. Why should people other places become so hysterical? Maybe it’s the hysteria that is the problem, not the guns.
If we always carefully avoid the issue, catering to the hysterics, do we not feed the antis and support their baseless fears, making it ever easier for them to push us back farther and farther? Eventually we would accommodate and compromise to the point of having zero options.
But then we each must do as we think is right. I’m all done backing up myself…
Well, I guess the issue, Joel, is that I didn’t see any of the demonstrators being a “dick” about it. I just saw misguided people trying to make a point that didn’t need to be made that way. Now, if they HAD pointed those guns at anyone, or been dressed in camo with mundo gear hung all over them… that kind of shit, then yes, they would be complete assholes.
Dumb and misguided is not the same as being a “dick” about it.
But at least now I know you are still the same lovable, hard headed rebel I always knew you to be. LOL
No, it certainly is ridiculous that walking past a school with an inanimate object, you’re totally right on that. My point is related to some of each of the others, mostly that its possible to be portrayed as ‘being a dick’ even if you’re not, and so we end up having to try extra hard, if only to limit the anti’s ability to caricature us in the media. I am a strong supporter of wearing your gun all day every day, in the open, but the likelihood of large group protests, such as this one, being mischaracterized is very high. Its important to acknowledge that tactic and take steps to neutralize it.
Well, Wolfman, I suppose it is that way in some places. Can’t imagine why anyone would bother with such a demonstration anywhere on the east coast, for example. And other places, like here, it’s pretty silly because nobody really much cares. Several years ago a few dozen of us showed up at the courthouse, all carrying our rifles slung, and most had OC sidearms as well. Can’t remember what it was all about, actually… but we didn’t even get mentioned in the statewide newspaper. The local paper is a liberal rag, and they were annoyed… but nobody pays much attention to them either. LOL They wouldn’t sell any papers, I think, if 3/4 of it was not devoted to the school teams and other goings on.
So, activism that doesn’t involve aggression is no sin, any more than it’s a sin to stay home if that seems best to you. I sort of tend to the idea that non-aggressive radical behavior in support of liberty is no vice, even if you get your butt kicked now and again. …and going along to get along is no virtue.
But that’s just me.
I just grin when I see a label that warns me it is a felony to use the product for other than the stated, intended purpose. Gets me to thinking what else I might find to do with the stuff… I don’t have a violent bone in my body… but I aim to misbehave.
I OC when I want/need to and I will CC when I want or need to. Generally the OC/CC involves a sidearm. I have never considered OC or CC so to make a political statement. I would not participate in such an action as at the restaurant in Texas, I consider it rude. I also would consider anti-hunting groups picketing my pre-hunt breakfast as rude behavior. I wouldn’t feel threatened or intimidated though.
If the time and place warrants OC of a rifle or shotgun, I will do so. It won’t be to make a political statment, because basically I don’t do political statements. It would also suggest that laws agains weapons at politicians offices etc are warranted. Unless hunting, traveling, way out in the boonies or in response to a dire emergency, I don’t see my lifestyle as requiring OC of a long arm outside of my own property.
Best OC vs CC debate I’ve ever read. Perhaps you’re only a “dick” if you OC as part of an organized group, but not a dick if you OC individually as you go about your daily business.
You might only be a “dick” if the reason you OC is to intimidate some other group or persons that don’t support your rights.