As usual, my research left something to be desired…

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With two inconveniently overcast days I haven’t had a lot of computer time for research on building materials. What I have learned so far, though, in company with your informative comments, has been educational.

For example, there isn’t a huge price difference between goodish-quality wood sheeting and Hardie Panel. In fire country, which we’re really not but conceivably could be, it’s attractive. Anyone who has ever worked with it and then publicly commented on the experience, though, seems to curse the day it was invented. It’s heavy and difficult to cut and penetrate. My heirs and assigns might one day be happy I used the stuff, but I’m pretty sure my co-workers would not thank me.

There is a huge price difference between Tyvek-style house wrap and tarpaper, and I don’t understand the advantages well enough to see why I should pay (literally!) ten times as much for the wrap. Of course on the 600+ square foot scale of the Lair, we’re talking about ten times a very small amount: Enough tarpaper to finish this job with lots left over would cost a hair over $40.

Still haven’t looked at the price of paint, tools and incidentals. So still working.

About Joel

You shouldn't ask these questions of a paranoid recluse, you know.
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14 Responses to As usual, my research left something to be desired…

  1. gonewiththewind says:

    Tyvek will be the better choice. In a small house cooking and body heat will generate a lot of moisture relative to the cubic feet of the space. This effect will also be exacerbated by having a stove heat source vs a air flow type of central heating system The moisture must go someplace and it will end up between the tar paper and the sheathing where it will sit possibly causing mold. Now, this may not happen, your climate is dry. But on the other hand the winter cold works against you.

  2. John says:

    Tyvek breathes, tar paper does not.

  3. John says:

    … and with that said. I would think tar paper would be fine in your application.

  4. Goober says:

    Hardie panel/hardie lap is NOT hard to work with. Not even a little bit. It is a “score and snap” operation, just like drywall.

    I don’t know who gave you the idea that it is tough to work with, but it requires less tools and less expertise than any wood siding.

    If you don’t want to score and snap, you can cut it with a regular old circular saw with a regular old wood blade. No special equipment needed.

    I will grant that it dulls blades faster than wood, but honestly?

    I just use a razor knife and score and snap it, and it works just fine.

    Also, review the hardie website a bit – you can get the panels pre-finished for a little more dinero, with the benefit that it saves you money and time on paint, FOREVER.

    There is no downside to hardie. None.

    Other than maybe up-front cost, but even there, it’s pretty competitive.

  5. Zelda says:

    Tar paper isn’t even close to Tyvek in insulation, infiltration barrier, comfort, warming you in winter and cooling you in summer. You can’t imagine how much less wood you will use and how much warmer you will be. You won’t believe you are living in the same Lair. If the siding fails the Tyvek wrap will protect you and the Lair for several years. It you use standard siding Tyvek will be even more important. My house is wrapped with it. It would have been worth the cost at three times the price. Hardie cement board products, unless you have the right tools, and maybe not even then, is absolutely horrendous to put on and very very heavy. Your helpers will not thank you. They may even leave unless the food and beer are very good and unlimited. But it’s a once and done, and fire safety may matter. This work on your house is intended to be a one time event.

  6. Wolfman says:

    Unless things have changed, Tyvek only comes in one size roll. That roll will do a lot more than just your house, and it does degrade in the sun after a while. I vote for tarpaper, but there are also a few cheaper homewrap options that are quite a bit cheaper than real DuPont branded Tyvek. Tarpaper is not quite as high quality a vapor barrier as the plastic coatings, but as long as the interior of the lair is finished I don’t think you’ll generate enough moisture inside the walls to cause problems. I also vote for Hardi, if you can swing it. LP and similar pressboard sidings have an unfortunate tendency to delaminate in heat and sun conditions, even with good quality paint. Hardi is heavier by far when you’re working with a whole stack, but once you are actually installing, it doesn’t really make a huge difference. As Goober said, you can score and snap with a razor blade, and cleaning up the edges with a drywall rasp works pretty good. You can cut it with a regular sawblade, but it will massacre the carbides. Hardi blades are usually two or four tooth blades, and they work quite well. Power shears work pretty well, too, and don’t make much dust, which is really the biggest downside to working with Hardi. Make sure you cut with your back to the prevailing wind. Regular jigsaw and sawzall blades will also work fine, but they’ll get dull faster.

  7. Claire says:

    Overview:
    http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/all-about-water-resistive-barriers

    Chart of properties of differnt wrap types
    http://buildingadvisor.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Sheathing_Wrap_Table_pdfpng1.png

    Personally, I’ve been using tarpaper (asphalt felt), but then the climate here is way different from where you are. Big thing, IMHO: you need to cover Tyvek very quickly, while tarpaper can stand uncovered for years (and in many redneck havens, does stand uncovered for years).

  8. Kentucky says:

    From the little I’ve read, Tyvek only comes in rolls nine feet wide, 150 feet long.

    Perhaps you could find enough “end scrap” from a construction site or two?

    Just a thought.

  9. Kentucky says:

    Well, I was wrong. Appears to be available in narrower, shorter rolls. Installation instructions as well . . .

    http://www.dupont.com/content/dam/assets/products-and-services/construction-materials/assets/K22331_Residing_Install_103111.pdf

  10. Joel says:

    I’ve heard of tarpaper shacks as well. But early experiments with covering the Lair with tarpaper, just prior to a windstorm, had me chasing shreds of tarpaper all over the countryside.

  11. Zelda says:

    Tyvek is available in the shorter, narrower rolls – and long ones – in my Home Depot. I’ve never heard before that Tyvek had to be covered fairly quickly – Dorothy Ainsworth’s son’s house stood for at least one winter/one year with only Tyvek on it. See the Backwoods Home article. When tarpaper was all there was, tarpaper was all there was and you used it. And it shredded, got brittle, broke, and people put another layer on. Tyvek is a once and done. Where I live, high altitude, cold, temperature extremes in one day, intense heat in the few days of summer, high wind, hail, intense rain, snow of course, the cheaper alternatives to Tyvek do not hold up (they get either brittle or saggy) and when new, do not provide the same insulation as Tyvek. Lowe’s used to carry alternate cheaper brands but they just didn’t perform well here. Whether or not a cheaper product will perform as well as Tyvek may depend on where you live and the weather conditions.

  12. S says:

    Yeah, we’re “we’re really not but conceivably could be” in fire country. In 2011 three fires came within 2 miles of our place. Not a single one within 50 miles before or since. I’m very, very glad to have Hardiplank. It wasn’t at all hard to work with, but then I actually read instructions. Most of the negative comments I have read suggest a severe need for RTFM. HeavIER than sawdust equivalents, but I know for a fact that you can make a van full of help appear on short notice, and this is the perfect job for that skill. Put it in your budget as an option.

  13. S says:

    There’s a reason Tyvek costs 10 times more than tar paper. It is worth it. That’s the decision of the market, not my opinion. Dupont charges what the market will bear and is pretty good at getting maximum revenue.

    The technical merits are a slam-dunk for Tyvek, and have been addressed by several comments. I haven’t seen anyone talk about the labor costs. Just because you don’t pay yourself doesn’t mean your time is worth nothing. On a building your size, with the helpers I suggest you consider, Tyvek will be finished in an hour, if not less. Tar paper is heavy and will take a multiple of that time. That’s why builders who actually make profits buy Tyvek – among its many benefits is helping them crush their foolish competitors who don’t really understand that time = money.

  14. Claire says:

    Zelda, Du Pont says Tyvek should be covered within four months. Granted, that’s probably a guideline rather than a rule. But it does deteriorate, and may begin to do so in ways not visible to the naked eye (e.g. changing its perm properties)

    I’ve also left Tyvek exposed for a year, as Dorothy Ainsworth did, and suffered no harm. But then, Dorothy and I both live in pretty benign climates. Joel’s climate is harsh and it would probably be best to assume that the guideline IS the rule.

    I’m not a partisan either for Tyvek or tarpaper. I think both have their place (and as Joel pointed out, the cllimate at the Lair means it can’t be kept as a “tarpaper shack” for very long; not with those insane winds). Just making note that Tyvek isn’t forever.

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