Uncle Joel wakes this morning to a bit of an existential crisis…
This is the Secret Lair, as of just a minute ago. I couldn’t find a better picture. Yesterday I emoted to Neighbor D that I need to get it sided this season or start replacing OSB panels. They were never intended to be exposed to the weather as long as they have been, and the sunniest ones are delaminating and the wettest ones are getting spongy. Not to mention what rain incursion is probably doing to my insulation. Siding the Lair has been my planned Big Project for two years, and every time something else came up. Last year it was the Jeep, the year before that it was my eyes. Worthy causes all, say I, but in the meantime the Lair fades in the sun. There is always money for the crisis du jour – mostly thanks to you guys – only that and no more. Just-in-time financing is a practice I’ve grown comfortable with. Coming right out and asking for stuff is not. Yeah, I know I’ve done it before. But it makes me uncomfortable.
Get to the point, Joel.
I woke this morning to an email from a reader who pledged $500 to the project and suggested I use it as a kick-starter. The cheapest approach, which is not very cheap, is T111 siding over tarpaper – proper paint will cost nearly as much as the siding – and my observation is that with proper paint it withstands the local environment indefinitely just fine. Local assistance has already been pledged.
I don’t have a detailed price list for materials and it would probably take me a couple of weeks to develop one, since there’s no Lowe’s in the immediate neighborhood. But earlier estimates suggest I’ll need to raise just over another $500 to do the job. With that I can side and paint the cabin as well as completing the upper balcony/fire escape and getting the cement board I need for finally tiling the interior floor: I already have all the other materials I need for that.
I’ve dithered over this post for more than an hour, and now I have to go to town with D&L. So I’m going to go ahead and post this before I lose my nerve. Maybe I’ll have more when I return. Discuss?
Well, bless your $500 pledger — and now just tell us what the total cost will be! You know we’re good for it. Some in a small way, some in a big way, but fr’eaven’s sake, we can’t have your Lair delaminating around your shoulders!
I’m not sure whether you can do a Kickstarter or what. All those crowdfunding sites have different rules. But maybe a Go-Fund-Me? Or just ask for blog donations.
But just do it!
Months back I suggested that Tyvek was a much better option in your situation than tar paper, and as I recall your response was that it was very expensive. More expensve than tar paper yes, but there are long range savings in heating costs and you’ll certainly be a lot cooler in summer and have less infiltration. Similarly HardiePlank and HardieBoard are a much better siding for your situation, being a cement board and fire resistant and not needing painting or stain unless you choose to do it, although it ain’t cheap and it has specific installation instructions. But how does it compare to siding and paint? when paint has to be re-applied every so often at an additional expense and effort? As you get older there’s a possibility you won’t welcome the regular upkeep of standard siding. And if your OSB is soggy or delaminating, it needs to be replaced before you side or at least sealed well. I think I also commented that if Claire can get people to donate over $8,000 for a roof for her house, we who value your regular blog posts should be able to come up with the much lesser amount needed to side your entire house even if you use better materials. I don’t think Lowe’s sells either Hardie products or Tyvek at least where I live so if you use them you may need Home Depot or another supplier. Just a thought.
Compare T1-11 to exterior cement board siding. Being concrete, I assume that stuff will never rot or delaminate, even if the paint is allowed to get decrepit. On the other hand, in its panel form it’s heavier than wood so helping hands would be more important for installation.
I used Hardieboard cementous lap siding on a house in Florida to great advantage. Two coats of primer and one of finish paint before going up over fresh 30 lb tarpaper, including multi-coating the cut ends, a final double coat of finish paint after it was up (Sherwin Williams Superpaint in all cases) and benign neglect from then on. It looked as good 11 years and four hurricanes later as the day it went up, even on the east and west sides that got the worst beatings from the sun. Florida is not exactly a building-friendly climate and the stuff worked great. Do it once, do it right, never do it again.
Zelda is right – even slightly questionable OSB needs to be replaced. The stuff was designed as a way to use waste wood to make cheaper, and much less sturdy, plywood. I’m quite surprised you’ve gotten the life out of it you have. Any other climate than a dry desert and you would have been living in a bare wooden frame a couple years ago.
RE: Tyvek. Manufacturer’s recommendation is to get it covered in under 30 days, and sooner is better. It does NOT like UV. (trivia – did you know Tyvek was originally invented for clean room paper because it doesn’t shed fibers?)
You want to do it right, I’m in for a Grant, maybe two.
The only Hardieboard I’m familiar with is backer board for tiling. Never heard of it as exterior siding.
The person who kicked this whole thing off this morning pledged $500 for Tyvek, thinking that was certainly the next logical step. I said that while Tyvek is certainly a very fine thing and I don’t disparage it in any way, it’s simply not in any conceivable budget. Of course I want to wrap the cabin before I side it, but tarpaper has worked for that purpose from time immemorial. Yeah I bitch about the weather, but this really isn’t Minnesota. He then amended his promise to $500 for the purpose of siding, period.
I’d say pretty much the same thing for cement siding. Look, guys, there are a lot of things I’d like to do with my home. But I don’t have the money, and I’m never ever going to be comfortable doing it with somebody else’s money. The only reason I’ve brought this up is that the Lair is starting to seriously deteriorate and I absolutely must finish the exterior this year or face major repairs. Since I’m hoping to do it with other people’s money, that means tarpaper, T1-11, some trim, a shitload of expensive paint, and a few tools. At maximum it’ll include materials to finish the fire escape and half a dozen sheets of Hardie Backer.
I checked my crotch and my sense of entitlement, and I’m still not Hillary Clinton.
HardiPlank is great for places that need to think about wild fires. It is on my to-do list for my gulch. Money isn’t the obstacle; mine is time.
Dare to think big. Tyvek AND HardiePlank AND new OSB wherever there is any question at all, +25% because you’re cheap and will try to keep stuff that should be pitched. Plus paint and primer. Don’t forget fasteners. Your labor, commentariat buys the materials. Trust your readers. Tell us what it costs to do the job right. You shouldn’t need weeks to produce a highball figure.
You’re going to be doing this with OPM – other people’s money. Get used to it. It’s perfectly honest. Once you get past the idea, the amount isn’t really that important.
The difference between you and Hillary will always be that she steals whatever she wants, and you don’t steal.
Looking at that picture closely, budget replacing ALL the OSB. That stuff was never intended to be exposed like that. I just replaced a wall that got a little bit of rain behind the siding due to a flashing mistake. The OSB disintegrated. Don’t nail good new stuff to crap OSB.
Show me what I’m missing here Joel. The UNFINISHED T1-11 you referenced (good stuff) is $33.91 per sheet. But a PRIMED 4’x8′ sheet of concrete siding is $31.49!
http://www.lowes.com/pd_89434-34299-217601_4294928817__?storeNumber=2527
Which is better for your application? I’m no builder and I don’t live in the AZ boonies! But fire resistant and termite resistant sound like good features to me.
Hey, you’ve got me hanging. Ask me to write a repair manual for your turn-of-the-century powertrain control system and I’m your man. Pretty much anything else and I’m just making it up as I go along. I won’t suggest there aren’t less-expensive alternatives than that one link, which is why I said I’m still working on a price list.
Too tired to do it tonight, but I’ll be in. Just did an onsite involving serious overtime + per diem. Our Evil Overlord ought to have a Secret Lair the boys can’t run through when the door isn’t open.
T-111 works well here, provided the seams & exposed edges are sealed or shielded; I’ve used it. Sounds like there might be better options for the application, though.
Hardiepanel is the James Hardie Company’s version of T-111, available in several different textures and colors. Hardieplank is their lap siding, also available in a couple of different textures and colors. Either can be had in whitish-gray if one chooses to administer one’s own paint. Hardie also makes their own flavor of Tyvek, and the sealing and flashing tapes for it.
Hardiepanel and Hardieplank are both cementous products, made primarily of cement with additional binders. Neither absorb water and bugs won’t eat it. The idiots who built my house in FL used premium cedar lap siding. (Wood? On the outside in Florida? Seriously?) After three years of annual scrape & paint I said “no more” and did the hardie lap siding. Over and done.
RE: OSB. Saw a demo some years back at the Home Builders’ Show in Orlando – Bostitch makes what they call a “Hurricane Nail” for roof and vertical sheathing. 8d nails, for air nailers, cement coated, oversize head. It took a very impressive amount of force to remove the 5/8 plywood panel and it was the panel that failed around the nails, not the nails. Same demo, with OSB, and it was no contest. The OSB failed at less than half the force. It’s just sawmill floor sweepings coated in resin and pressed into sheets.
The Hardiepanels go up fast, and they’ll add strength to the framing (you’ll still need to replace the soft or delaminating OSB). I’m not familiar with how the edges of the Hardiepanels get sealed – all I’ve ever used is the lap siding. What I try for is either Tyvek (or tarpaper, if it’s already there) with 1X2 pressure treated battens over the siding at the studs, then Hardieplank, or 1 1/2 inch rips of 1/2 PT plywood in place of the 1X2s. That provides an air space behind the siding for drainage and air drying if water ever gets behind it – and the Tyvek will keep it off the sheathing. In FL we have problems with high velocity wind driven rain (we call them “hurricanes”) that you probably don’t face in the desert.
Hardieboard products are the shizzle, but the material is pretty heavy (being part concrete) and I believe it requires drilling EACH fastener to secure to structure. Time consuming and I think you mentioned electricity is rather scarce at The Lair.
This post lists both pros and cons about it.
http://www.mbmcarpentry.com/blog/hardie-board-siding-pros-cons-hardy-plank-prices/
For what its worth, my parents home has T1-11 siding on it and in 2017, it will be 50 years old. Just keep an eye out for termites and woodpeckers :^), and treat the surfaces where water splashing up from rain or roof drips and the material will likely outlast you.
I hope this helps.
we’ve used metal roofing panels for siding with great success.
screws with washer heads, no nails and the finish bits can be bought or if a metal bender/brake is availible even less cost. You will need help, be careful if the wind is up as it will cut you up. Just another option…
Joel,
I’d like to respectfully suggest that you come up with two budgets: one for the T-111/inexpensive siding, and a better/higher quality budget and let your benefactors decide. I’m of a mind that better is better, and I’m more than willing to pony up more dollars to make your life better. I get a lot from your humble blog, and I suspect that others do as well.
Whatever you decide, I’ll support.
I’m in.
Metal roofing panels. I once sided and roofed an entire 1600 sq ft house with it. Sometimes you can get lucky and find some old panels to recycle for nothing or very little.